>I have an Alpine MRV-T500 which is 300X1 and 75X2 @ 4ohms and 150X2 @
>2ohms. Now I have 2 MTX 12" 8ohm subs in parallel. I am looking for a
>new pair of 12"'s and was wondering if my amp can go to 600X1 @ 2ohms
>and what kind of subs would go good with this amp. I wanted to spend
>around $200 per sub and keep the same amp. e-mail me w/suggestions.
>Thanks.
>
>Scott
>termer@cris.com
No, don't even think about running your amp at a 2-ohm mono load. It will
last maybe 30 seconds at full power, then die a horrible death. You would
be much better off to either get a beefier amp (like a Phoenix Gold or
SoundStream) that can handle 2-ohm mono impedances or pick up another pair
of subs to run your amp at 150Wx2 at 2 ohms (4 subs total, wired parallel
in two pairs). Get 4 subs that require minimal box volume, like MTX Black
Gold 12's or Infinity Beta 12's.
-
----
>Obviously you have never used Alpine v12 amps.. I've had them at 2ohm mono
>loads before and they handle fine. Though I did install a fan to keep
>everything cool, they perform exceptionally well with no problems.
>
Maybe my response was a little off the mark, but I'm a believer in sticking
with manufacturer's recommendations. OK, I don't have a problem
believing that an Alpine V12 can handle a 2 ohm mono (equivalent to 1 ohm
stereo) load under the right conditions (adding a cooling fan, perhaps a
stiffening capacitor), but things like amplifier dampening factor and slew
rate will suffer (resulting in sloppier bass). And unfortunately, just
because the impedance is halved once more, it DOESN'T mean that the
amplifier power will automatically double (going from 300 to 600 WATTS)
like this gentleman was hoping. Alpine did some clever engineering with the
powersupply for their V12 amps, but it just isn't quite THAT good. If it was,
Alpine would have specified it in their installation guides. Trust me, the
marketing people at Alpine would just love to tell the raging masses that
their amps can run low impedances like this. They don't because the
warranty claims would probably drive Alpine out of business.
----
I have the Premier GM-A5040 and GM-X1020 amps and they rock! Very warm
sounding amps with plenty of power - but best for mids/highs and not subs.
I am using them to power 2 prs. of 6.5" MB Quarts and they kick ass, but I
used to use the 1020 to run 2 12-inch Kickers and it always thermalled. I
would go with a better sub amp, like Phoenix Gold or Rockford or MTX that
are excellent sub amps.
Get the Premier amps for your mids/highs.....you will love them
-----
> You might want to check out Orion's XTR 450 (50x4) to run the front and
> rear (or the XTR 475 75x4 amp) and an Orion XTR 2150 (150x2) to run a pair
The salesman in me says "Rockford", since that is the only brand of the
three that I sell. The audiophile in me says "Xtant", but either the
Phoenix or Orion would be good choices.
You might want to check out Orion's XTR 450 (50x4) to run the front and
rear (or the XTR 475 75x4 amp) and an Orion XTR 2150 (150x2) to run a pair
of JL 10w6 subs. The 10w6 can be configured to run the amp at 3 ohm
stereo which is perfectly safe load for that model. This setup should
give excellent sonic qualities as well as the capability to do SPL's in
the 135 db range.
12 Volt Visual Concepts -
Professional Audio System Diagrams and Presentation Books for Serious Audio Comp
etitors
IASCA Certified Judge; IASCA Competitor 301-600 Pro
-
----
Legal Warning: Anyone sending me unsolicited/commercial email WILL be charged a
$100 (us) an hour proof-reading fee, 3 hours minimum. Do NOT send "junk" email t
o me; consider this, an official notice:
"By US code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer modem/printer meets the defin
tion of a telephone fax machine. By sec.227 (b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send an
y unsolicited advertizement to such equipment. By sec.227(B)(3)(C), a violation
-of the aformentioned is punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or
$500, whichever is greater, for each violation.
----------------
mlacher@netrax.net wrote:
>
> I'm looking for an amp to power a set of 5 1/4 inche Eclipse component speaker
s
> in front kickpanels. I've considered amps in the 40 watt / channel range from
> to above mentioned manufacturers and I'm looking to pay in the low end of the
> $200 range. Any reccomendations?
>
> -mike l.
MTX 280, 40x2, great amp, Crutchfield sells at $250, can probably get it
for $200. It's also underrated, puts out more like 80x2. Never hurts to have
extra power and the gains down a bit (more headroom, longer amp life).
Hmmm I think Crutchfield is also having a closeout on Kicker amps. I
think you can grab a 160ss (80x2) for somewhere in the 200's.
-Victor
--
----
I @in't the one: >Prestige good? - Yes. Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:10
A friend of mine runs a Pioneer 12" and JBL 8" tube off of the 500
watt model. No problems from it except that occasionally overheats.
But I guess that in part can be attributed to the fact that Prestige
does not have MOSFETS, so they run pretty hot.
---------
--
In my opinion, your best bet would be to go with the Thunder 2160. If
you buy the 2160 new, you get a 3 year warranty!! On the box for the
2160, it says 325x1 @ 4 ohms, but they come with a little sheet telling
the actual power. Mine was close to 400x 1 @ 4 ohms!!! MTX is very
liberal on their power ratings, and in my opinion, the 2160 is one of the
best amps for the money!! Seeing as you have two 8 ohm woofers, you could
parallel them, and you'd still be sending close to 400 watts to each
woofer!! If you've never heard two 12" Kicker comps with 400 watts goin
to them, you better prepare yourself real good, because it's gonna be
LOUD!!!!!!!! Plus the 2160 has built in 80 hz low pass crossover, and 18
db of bass boost on tap! The crossover on that amp is one of the best
I've seen....that baby lets absolutely no highs through!
--------
Um, two 8 ohm'ers in parrellel for a 4 ohm bridged load. That
gives you 400+ or so watts TOTAL. But, you have two speakers, so you
split the power to find the amount each speaker gets. So about
200+ to each.
Well, it's 18db/octave. The way you worded it makes it sound like
it's built so good, that no highs come out. It's the fact that it is
18db/oct that attenuates the highs so much. But it is nice that it has the
x-over built in for less noise, as long as you want the 80hz fixed x-over
point. I agree, it's a great amp.
-Victor
------------
John, in my honest opinion, earthquakes make great amps. I am
currently using an earthquake 1000bx, which is the bigger brother of
the pa2150. It puts out 1000 watts rms @ 4ohms mono to my 2 12"
Solobarics. The pa2150 will put out a lot of power, about 700 watts
rms to be exact. Earthquakes amps have got specs as well, for example
high s/n ratios and low thd ratios.
A review in Car Sound said:
EARTHQUAKE PA-2150C AMP WITH
CROSSOVER
PRICE: $615
FEATURES: This unit drives subwoofers, midranges or tweeters with
clarity. It includes high
and low pass RCA outputs and have MOSFET power supplies which double
its rated power
when bridged for mono output.
TECH SPECS: 700 watts (mono) at 4 ohms, 350 watts x 2 at 2 ohms
(stereo), a
signal-to-noise ratio of 105 dB and total harmonic distortion of
0.015%.
PHONE: 415-327-3003
-- ---------
John Long: >Best amplifier for the money???? 22 Apr 97 16:48
I wouldsay MTX thunder series amps, because they are fairly cheap for the
power they put out. They are highly under-rated also.
john
--------
I am hoping to use a Punch 60x2 to power my Boston Rally RC61's in the
front and a pair of midbass drivers for rear fill. The 2 channel punch
amp will be parallel wired to the four drivers (2 ohm stereo). Using
this wiring config I will obviously have no fader control between the
front and rear, and the imaging will inevitably be terrible. My
question is does anyone have any idea as to whether I can use an in-line
passive band-limited filter (200Hz-3kHz)/volume attentuator for the rear
drivers? Does anyone know if such a thing exists? Should I just scrap
this penny saving and buy another 2 channel amp to get the results I
want? Or... should I just forget the idea of rear fill and stick the
extra pair of midbass drivers in the front?
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
--
Well a combination device doesn't (at least not to my limited
knowledge) exist but just simply use a stereo L-pad for volume
adjustments (resistors can work too but it will be fixed rather than
adjustable. For the pass band filter use a coil to limit the highs and
a cap to limit the lows. A simple first order should do just fine.
--Gordon Lau
_
Why not just use the rear channels off your head unit? Assuming it's not
pre amp only...
Shit. I assumed again.
=-=Andrew
---------
> Ive been researching all aspects of car audio but Im confused about this.
> Some amps like Alpine come with xovers. Other brands dont.
> Forget about subs for a minute.
> Just talking about powering the car speakers.
> If I buy an amp with no xover, why would I need to get one if at all?
>
> If I buy the amps with xovers, when would they be used if at all?
>
> Thanks!
>
> David
Unless you're only running a pair of full range drivers (yeah, right)
then you have to have crossovers. These can either be passive or active.
The job of the crossovers is to divide the frequencies of the music so
that each speaker is sent only the frequencies it is designed to handle.
I.E. bass to the subwoofers, treble to the tweeters, etc. Let's take 2
simple systems each with a mono subwoofer, two 6.5" midbass/midrange
drivers, and a pair of tweeters.
--
In system 1, say you only have a single stereo amplifier. Then you
have to use passive crossovers. The subwoofer would be connected to a
passive low pass crossover (say 100Hz and below), which would then be
connected to the amplifier's L+ and R- terminals (bridged mode). The
midbass/midrange drivers would be connected to passive bandpass
crossover (say 100 Hz to 3.5 kHz) which would then be connected to the
amp's left and right terminals (stereo mode) as the left and right
midbass/midrange drivers, respectively. The tweeters would be connected
to passive high pass crossovers (3.5 kHz and up), which would also be
connected to the amp's left and right terminals (stereo mode) as the
left and right tweeters, respectively.
Note that each crossover is effectively wired in parallel with the
others. A crossover only shows the driver's impedance to the amp in the
crossover's pass band. Outside this frequency band, the crossover shows
a very high impedance to the amp. The effect of this for the amp is that
it only sees one speaker/channel at any given frequency, instead of all
three in parallel, which would be a difficult load for the amp to drive.
In system 2, say you have two stereo amplifiers. One for the subwoofer,
and one for the midbass/midrange and tweeters. In this system, we will
replace the sub's passive crossover, and half of the midbass/midrange
passive crossover with an active two-way unit. Here's the setup: Before
the amplifiers, a 100 Hz 2-way active crossover is placed. This
crossover has high pass and low pass outputs. The low pass outputs are
connected to one of the amplifiers. This amplifier's L+ and R- outputs
are then connected directly to the subwoofer (bridged mode). The active
crossover's high pass outputs are connected to the other amplifier. The
midbass/midrange drivers are then connected to passive low pass
crossovers (3.5 kHz and below), which are then connected to the second
amp. The tweeters are connected to passive high pass crossovers (3.5kHz
and above) which are also connected to the second amp. The tweeter is
connected the same as in system one.
These two examples give examples of the use of active and passive
crossovers. A 3rd system could be done with 3 amplifiers, and all active
crossovers. This is left as an exercise for the reader.
The active crossover system is more expensive, since it has two amps,
but it also has some advantages. When you clip the system with tons of
bass, only the subwoofer amp clips. The mids & tweets continue to
receive a clean signal. This is good for better sounding tunes, and also
makes the mids and tweets more reliable, since clipping is what kills
them. In some cases, you can effectively have 4 times as much effective
power for music by only doubling the amount of amplifier power with a
2nd amp.
Hope this helps. It is like me to give 10 times more info than you
wanted, but here it is.
Russell Kinder
Sr Electronics Design Engineer
Stillwater Designs
(remove the * in my email address to reply)
--
David,
A cross-over is designed to separate frequencies in a system. For
example, on a simple 2 way system, you may have the following: A pair of
coaxial speakers, with the high pass crossover (either on the amp, or
external) set at 70 Hz. Now, your subs, which would be running off of
coaxial speakers, with the high pass crossover (either on the amp, or
external) set at 70 Hz. Now, your subs, which would be running off of
another amp would be set with a low pass crossover cut off frequency of
70Hz. Please remember that these values are totally hypothetical, and
this would be the simplest design of a car audio system. I would recomend
either purchasing an amp with a built in crossover (preferably variable),
or a high quality external crossover. I would also recomend a pair of
high quality seperates, or at the very least, a pair of coaxials with an
external (passive) crossover network (used to seperate the frequency's
between the mid and the tweeter). Hope this helps some.
Doug Hensley
IASCA AMA 151-300
1994 Toyota Pickup
--
-----------
> Just to give you an example, we received the MTX Blue Thunder PRO504, which
> is supposed to be only 50 watts per channel. The bench test said it tested
> at 115 watts per channel. We hooked it up to our boards, and promptly began
> to force a set of JBL 12" subs to shake the heck out of the store.
>
> Their subs are just as good. I'm not sure about their mids and highs, or
> their signal processors, but I'm waiting with anticipation to hear em.
-------
>I saw the MTX Blue Thunder amp tested in CA&E this month and all of
the
>ads are also for the Blue Thunder line of amps. So, what I want to
know
>is this, whats the difference between the Blue Thunder Series and the
>regular Thunder amps?
>
>Nothing on the MTX web site even mentions the Blue Thunder Line.
>
I asked Grizz a couple of days ago about the difference and there is
basically little difference. Boost freq., xover freq., rated output
and aesthetics. The six models are approx. the same watts/channel as
the existing Thunder line. Different dealers, I guess was the main
reason for the new line (meaning Circuit City and Good Guys can now
both carry MTX but different lines).
------------
What the hell are you talking about "competition capable" ?? Are you
saying that MTX Thunder amps are not?? Those are some of the best... oh
fuck it... those are the best amps out there! Sure, they may not have all
the fancy features of some amps, but they do what they do very good...
which is create lots of power with very little distortion. And the fact
that they have no turn on/off noise help even more for competitions.
And why the hell are you comparing the new Blue Thunders to Rockford
Fosgate amps. Like MTX is just starting to make amps that are even close
to as good as the R/Fs Are you out of your mind... MTX already passed R/F
a long ass time ago. Put any Thunder amp against any comparable R/F amp
and watch MTX blow it away!
-----------
I have MTX thunder amps and a pair of MTX BLACK GOLD 12's in a sealed
enclosure,
I using the 2160 bridged mono, on a 4 ohm load. The setup works great!
Iam very happy.
Have a look at the Black Gold subs,,
------------
>From: (Douglas Forman)
>Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
>Subject: Re: a/d/s vs mtx amps re how they sound
>Date: 13 Jun 1997 14:10:48 -0400
>Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY, USA
zmax@fuspammers.world.std.com wrote:
>Hi. Can anyone tell me how they would characterize the
>sound quality, "how they sound", of the a/d/s 40x4 amp
>P440 (or any similer a/d/s amp) vs the MTX Thunder series
>such as the 40x4 4320.
>I was told that mtx rating is lower than actual but a/d/s
>amps are at the wattage they are rated.
>I have in my car now an MTX Thunder 4160 and either want to
>upgrade to mtx 4320 or a/d/s P440. I have 4" seps up front
>and 6.5 coax in back and a baz tube. Right now Im not sure if
>the mtx is contributing to too much high end in the tweeters
>or if its bright in general?
>Thanks!
>David
>(remove fuspammers to reply )
>
>Im sick of SPAM!!!
Hi. Let me start by saying that I have three a/d/s/ amps in my car,
so my opinion is surely biased, but biased for a good reason. I
love these amps. I use the series that came before the Mx series, and
they sound fantasic. I have a detailed sound stage, pretty good
imaging, and it sounds smooth. The a/d/s amps are fantastic.
As I have not experience with the MTX amps, I have no right to opinion
on them. I will say that I have heard them before in situations
where they were driving a seperates set, and I have heard them driving
subs. I thought they did a good job with the subs (where a/d/s/ might
be slightly lacking in power), but the mid-high range was terrible.
I also heard that very brite sound that you described.
You didn't mention what was going to drive what, so I will say this.
If you are going to drive your 4" and 6.5" sets, DEFINATELY go
with the a/d/s P440. If you are going to use if for subs, go with
the MTX. Although, your sub is pretty small, so I think the a/d/s/
would do fine. I'm thinking about future sub upgrades here (we all
Th
would do fine. I'm thinking about future sub upgrades here (we all
do it at some point).
About how the two amps are rated... I have spoken personally with
people from a/d/s/ who tell me that a/d/s/ does not overrate thier
amps. Actually, he said my PQ-10, which is listed at 40x4, gets
I don't know how MTX rates their amps. I highly doubt, however,
that the overrate their amps. Did someone reputable tell you that??
>From: rocky
>Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
>Subject: Re: a/d/s vs mtx amps re how they sound
>Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 21:02:24 GMT
>Organization: All USENET -- http://www.Supernews.com
zmax@fuspammers.world.std.com wrote:
>Hi. Can anyone tell me how they would characterize the
>sound quality, "how they sound", of the a/d/s 40x4 amp
Hey David!
I can't really give u a comparison of these 2 amps as I have never
owned any MTX equipment. I have 2 a/d/s 240cx Power Plates (40x2 160x1
both at 4 Ohms). These amps have better than average mid to high range
output and good low-end power aswell.. I was using one for my AL6
component's and the other for my 2 a/d/s RS10 DVC subs. I recently
bought a Crunch Power Zone 80 (not a bad amp) which I use to power my
components, and use one a/d/s amp for each sub (40 watts per coil) My
car (91' Civic) pounds pretty good. The only down side to these amps
is that they are pricey. I got a good deal on my amps though as I was
buying a complete system.
I am fairly new to the car audio scene as this is my first high-end
system. I am pleased with my a/d/s amps so far but then I don't have a
whole lot of expierence to draw from. If u would like any other specs
and/or info (from owner's manual) send me an e-mail; my address is
rocky@icom.ca
-----------
>From: autofile@TheAutophile.com (Peter Lufrano)
>Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
>Subject: Re: Will overpowering my speakers kill it?
>Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:48:17 -0700
>Organization: The Autophile
>Lines: 32
>Message-ID:
>References: <33add7d4.751282@news.pacbell.net> <5ompo4$jbb$2@eclipse.txdirect.net>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: dial-berk1-19.iway.aimnet.com
In article <5ompo4$jbb$2@eclipse.txdirect.net>, "David Knaack"
wrote:
> >In article you wrote:
> > I know that underspowering my speaker 25watts x 4 RMS is
> > bad....if I try to turn it up louder but what if I overpower it.?
>
> Underpowering a speaker will not damage it, but overpowering it will. Try
> to stay at or below the manufactures power rating.
I TOTALLY disagree with this statement. In over 20 years of installing car
and home audio, my experiences tell me that the exact opposite is true.
The ONLY speakers I have ever even SEEN that were blown, were blown by a
client using under powered amplification, "at or below" the manufacturers
rated power handling of the speaker.
On the other hand, in the countless systems I have designed and installed
using amplifiers double or even triple the power rating of the speaker, I
have NEVER had a speaker come back blown.
In my experience, what KILLS speakers, is uing an amplifier that has too
little power for the application, and is driven into clipping. The
Distortion fron the amplifier is simply translated into heat at the
speakers voice coil, thus burning up the coil.
Where as a system with higher powered amplification, that is never or
rarely (I know it is very easy to clip even a 1000 watt amp on transients)
clips or is over driven, is always operation in a linear fashion, less
heat is generated at the voice coil, thus improving the reliability of the
system........
--
Peter Lufrano - Owner
The Autophile
http://www.TheAutophile.com
----------------
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